Interview with Dutch Ambassador Plomp: The SPO should continue its work, accountability from those who broke the law
Dutch Ambassador to North Macedonia Wouter Plomp is leaving the country because his four-year mandate has ended. In an interview with Nezavisen Vesnik/Independent Daily newspaper, he emphasizes that anyone who has violated the law – has to be held accountable, referring to recent developments involving the Special Prosecutor’s Office (SPO), but, as Ambassador Plomp says, the institution must continue to work. He believes that early elections are not a solution to the current political crisis. Plomp announces that the Netherlands will soon ratify North Macedonia’s NATO Accession Protocol. As for the date for accession negotiations with the EU, Ambassador Plomp says the decision will depend on many factors, but encourages us to continue with the reforms not because of Brussels, but for ourselves. The Dutch Ambassador considers protection of the environment as one of the country’s future major challenges, with an emphasis on air pollution.
Mr. Plomp, your mandate as Ambassador of the Netherlands is nearing the end. You arrived in one Macedonia, you leave from another. Even with a different name. For a person coming from the outside, and who could witness the events from the inside, how big is the change?
It’s still same beautiful country, same friendly people that made me feel like home from the very first day. But yes, there is quite a big difference from the state capture as it was described at the time I arrived here to a country that is setting examples for good neighbourly relations in the region, and that is a step away from becoming a NATO member country.
Тhe Netherlands constantly repeats that the evaluation of Macedonia regarding the date to start negotiations is a fair one. What exactly does this fairness mean?
The European Union is a union of values, and the level of respecting those values in one country has direct impact on all the others. The Netherlands has always been strict on the conditions that need to be met in order to start negotiations or to become member of this Union. The fairness in our approach means we walk part of this road together with North Macedonia, providing concrete and practical support in fulfilling these conditions.
We follow closely the state of the rule of law because we care. In the last two decades we have provided over 200 million Euro direct support to projects in the areas of judiciary, public finance, education, police and culture. On the top of that, many Dutch experts have worked together with the institutions here, helping them to reach higher standards.
As I have said many times, a functioning rule of law is not a task to be fulfilled because the EU demands it, but because the citizens of North Macedonia want and ask to live in a prosperous country with good and fair opportunities for all.
Many times you have stated that the continuation of the work of the SPO is of extreme importance. The resignation of Katica Janeva and the investigation on high corruption where she is also mentioned is a dramatic blow for the image of the SPO. Is there future for the SPO after this huge scandal?
Accountability is the basis of the rule of law, and everyone, regardless of their function or political background should be held responsible for any past, current or future wrongdoings.
The SPO was established at a period when high level crime and corruption was not addressed by the regular prosecutors’ office and managed, against all odds and in very difficult circumstances, to initiate and finalize a number of cases.
The Netherlands as well as other EU member states and the US have invested in building the capacity of this institution and enabling it to work according to highest standards. I believe North Macedonia and its citizens can only benefit if this human capital and institutional capacity is integrated one way or the other.
Would the Netherlands give green light for the date to start the negotiations in October if an agreement on the SPO is not reached?
The decision on starting the negotiations that will be taken in October depends on many factors. The results and the track record is what is of importance for the Netherlands. We would like to see effective fight against high level crime and corruption and solid track record in the reform process.
One week ago you said that the opposition should take responsibility for the Law on SPO. The opposition now asks for early elections. Can Macedonia allow itself this luxury of wasting half a year on elections at times when the decision on the date should be made and the NATO protocol should be ratified?
I think that North Macedonia cannot afford to lose any time right now, and I don’t see how elections can be the solution to any of the problems. The government and all political stakeholders should focus on delivering results and implementing the laws in practice.
I come from a country where we debate for the difficult issues until we find a solution acceptable and beneficial for all. That’s by no means an easy process, but it gives lasting results and positive changes on the long term.
When can we expect the Netherlands to ratify the NATO protocol?
The protocol has already been ratified by the House of Representatives, and the debate in the Senate is scheduled for September. We are very much looking forward to welcoming North Macedonia as the 30th NATO member country.
Ohrid is fighting to preserve the UNESCO status, and few days later there is a solemn opening of an illegal construction – pizzeria, with the presence of political representatives from the government. Is there any legal, political and social logics in all this or is it simply that no one takes care about the rule of law anymore?
Rule of law is equally important on national, local and individual level. I am therefore glad that the Prime Minister stated at one of the latest press conferences that the Government will take measures if the local self-government fails to do so.
Ohrid is one of the most important and most beautiful places in all of Europe, and it is also the place that attracts more and more Dutch tourists every year. This growth of tourism needs to be managed and well planned. Ohrid also deserves to be well protected and preserved by all of us.
The census is long overdue
After almost two decades, census has been announced that should take place next year, but we already heard discussions about possible boycott of the operation. How do you explain the fact that the state has no power to implement a task such as the census, which is of crucial importance for its development?
The census is an important operation for any country and its citizens, affecting many aspects of their lives, from the services they use to organizing elections.
It is a shared responsibility of the political leaders to show in practice that they want North Macedonia to be a mature democracy and conduct this operation which has been long overdue.
What are the main challenges for Macedonia in the coming period?
As a person who fell in love with your country, its beautiful mountains and lakes, I would say environment is one of the key challenges, and it requires joint action from the central and local government but also from the citizens and businesses. Nature is one of the main assets of North Macedonia that needs to be taken care of. Winter will come with the air pollution, which gets worse every year – I could seriously feel it myself. It needs a serious long term plan, that is explained well to the citizens and implemented methodically for at least 10 years.
Rule of law, functional public administration and independent judiciary are of crucial importance for the wellbeing of the citizens, but most of all: good and equal opportunities for young people to stay here and contribute to its development and progress.
Goran Adamovski